Our third interview took place on Thursday, April 16. When I telephoned Lady Birdwood the night before to confirm, she asked me if I were in fact working for Searchlight. I found this a curious and somewhat unflattering question considering we’d already had two lengthy sessions, but she had been prompted to ask the question by the appearance in the latest issue of that subversive magazine of a reference to her as of Canadian origin. It also contained a few unflattering remarks about her political career. She said she was asking me because she had told me in our previous meetings that she hailed from Canada, and now this had appeared; Searchlight had never mentioned this before. I told her they had, indeed; Searchlight was, I believe, the medium through which I first heard of her many years ago.

Another reason she was suspicious of me was, she said, the fact that somebody close to her had once turned out to be a Searchlight “mole”. I found out sometime later that the “mole” in question was probably Dave Roberts. In a one-off newspaper format publication called Unity Against Fascism, which was published as long ago as 1976, Roberts claimed to have met her on several occasions. Richard David Roberts (1949-82) was Searchlight magazine’s first “mole”, but not the Searchlight Organisation’s first.

I have no doubt that Lady Birdwood’s telephone was routinely bugged (by the British authorities) and that the security services have a file on her activities several inches thick, exactly the same way they have files on anyone who is politically active in right or left wing circles.

Like probably the great majority of political activists, Lady Birdwood, took this sort of thing for granted. It’s not paranoia, but realism. The thing which I did find slightly amusing was that she was incensed by, of all things, Searchlight’s referring to her as an “honorary Yorkshire pudding.” (140)

I wrote here originally:

It remains to be seen that while Searchlight may denounce her as a fascist and poke fun of her sincere if futile efforts to save the white race from genocide, and that while it may publish overt lies about her having published Four Small Candles and “using her title to open respectable doors to her filthy ideas,” it has fought shy of mentioning her distinguished war record.

On her death, the August 2000 edition of Gable’s hate sheet published an extensive biography of her but in this connection reported only that “During the Second World War Birdwood (141) worked for the Entertainment National Service Association...In 1947 she joined the Red Cross in Germany...” And that was it!

The first questions I put to her at the third interview concerned her standing as the British National Party candidate in Dewsbury. Initially I had learned of this through a contact in the area and confirmed it in a telephone call to her prior to the election. She explained why she had been asked to stand and why she had agreed, politely rebuffing my efforts to talk her out of it.

Alexander Baron: Can you just say why you stood for the BNP? You’ve told me already.

Lady Birdwood: Yes, because I have a great friend who was standing and he’s very ill with cancer and couldn’t go on campaigning, and the BNP decided that perhaps I would do. So I was invited, and I agreed to do it because I like Stanley Clayton-Garnett. He’s a decent, honest person, and so I did. It isn’t the ideal thing to do, I can tell you. I’m better perhaps on my own so that I can speak for myself, my fellow countrymen and women.

AB: You told me before that you regarded the BNP as socialists?

LB: Yes, this is why it’s so stupid to keep calling the BNP and the National Front extreme right wingers – they’re socialists. And that’s the reason why I’ve never joined them, because I’m not a socialist.

AB: You don’t think that’s going to tar your image a little, being associated openly with people like that and sharing a platform with them? I know you’ve spoken at their meetings before, but now people can point at you and say, “Jane Birdwood is one of these fascists”, or whatever. (142)

LB: Yes, well that’s absurd, you see. I was simply doing what I was asked, and in the circumstances of terminal cancer I would do anything for somebody I knew and liked.

AB: You wouldn’t have stood for the BNP under other circumstances?

LB: Probably not, no, because I would be a Conservative if I could.

AB: It’s not you who isn’t a Conservative, it’s the Conservatives who are not conservative?

LB: Yes, it is this multi-racial madness, this invasion of our country without our permission, and if it had been a red hot invasion, say France or Holland or Spain or somewhere, we would have been armed and we would have been clothed and we would have been paid to go out and kill if necessary.

AB: As we were against the Germans?

LB: We were simply brought into that war, and I’ve discussed this with Germans. I don’t think we should have ever fought each other.

AB: It’s [war is] madness.

LB: Yes.

AB: Right, a little bit more about the Jewish Question. Do you have a copy of The Longest Hatred available?

[Lady Birdwood replied that she had and we fished out a copy of this and an issue of Choice from her office.]

AB: We spoke before about Jewish media control. You’re convinced they control the media lock, stock and barrel?

[Waving a finger at me, she dived out of the room and returned with a photocopy of an article from the London Evening Standard.]

AB: I remember this, this is the one you showed me last time: The TV Clique.

LB: They are the top five.

AB: The top five, right. The five top men in British TV are all Jews. Oy vay!

LB: We know this, you know this, you don’t have to argue about it, it’s a known fact.

AB: I can’t argue with it, it’s here in black and white! When we talk about the Jews controlling the media though, now if you come out with a statement like that out in the street, it is immediately branded “anti-Semitic”. But you have shown me a picture of five men here, and they are all Jews...okay, these are five men, Jews, in the media, with massive influence [to shape public opinion]. It says here “Together these five men form a powerful group who have a massive influence on what you will be watching on television today.” [The article] is written by Mark Honigsbaum. [Laughing.] Is he another one?

LB: Yes.

AB: It actually says here that all five are Jewish.

LB: Everybody now has caught onto this; wherever you go, people are saying that there is nobody but Jews in the media: the producers, the actors are enough. The credits at the end of everything. You look at them.

AB: So the idea that the Jews control the media is not an anti-Semitic fantasy?

LB: You mustn’t use the word “anti-Semitic”. Anti-Semitic is when you get too near to the truth. They can’t take it or they won’t take it and therefore they accuse you of being an anti-Semite.

AB: Let me rephrase it: this is not something that’s been dreamed up by Jew-haters. It’s a fact.

LB: It’s a fact of life.

AB: You could say that Pakistanis [and Indians] own half the corner shops in Britain. They actually boast this themselves, that they own half the small retail outlets in Britain. (143)

LB: I should say it’s more, I’ve proof of this.

AB: So to make such a claim is not being anti-Indian or anti-Pakistani, it’s merely stating a fact.

LB: It’s a fact. You see, our friend the Jew always takes it as being ‘anti’.

AB: This is something Jews are very touchy about, the reality of Jewish power.

LB: You can’t criticise a Pakistani [either]. He’s going to blow up.

AB: But this is something Jews are particularly sensitive about.

LB: Indeed.

AB: In fact, they refuse to face the facts over this. If you mention Jewish control, as it were, they immediately shout “Anti-Semite!” and expect you to shut up. Okay, so Jews are in control of the media, but that doesn’t mean that all the Jews control the media though, or that they’ve got a stranglehold on it, or does it?

LB: Oh yes, yes.

AB: And they won’t allow any anti-Jewish images to be projected?

LB: That’s right, yes.

AB: Right, this is in Britain. One thing I think something we can agree on is that if they are influential in the British media, their grip on the American media is even stronger.

LB: Well, I haven’t been there for a long time, but I guess from what I hear.

AB: There are a lot more Jews in America.

LB: Yes, thank goodness, they’ve got nine million; I think we’ve got more than they say.

AB: Okay, you told me that you saw on the Oprah Winfrey Show a woman who claimed to...

LB: No, I didn’t see her, but I have the paper about it; other people saw it, somebody told me about it. Simply that this woman, who is Jewish, was brought on, and she told the story of how she had a horrifying experience of watching a small baby, a little boy, ritually killed.

AB: Right, she’s mentally ill, I can tell you that. You accept that?

LB: I do now, it’s enough to send anybody over the edge.

AB: No, that’s not what I meant. Do you actually believe that this woman witnessed this ritual murder?

LB: Yes, I don’t think Oprah Winfrey would lie like that.

AB: These people lie about you, why won’t they lie about Jews?

LB: On television they won’t lie about me, in fact on television they won’t have me. I used to get on quite a lot at one time.

AB: The point...is that if these scheming Jews have got so much power in the media, they’re not going to allow any negative images of themselves to be projected. Wouldn’t the Jewish conspiracy, as it were, stop this?

LB: Stop what?

AB: This woman.

LB: It’s a very strange story, this one. I don’t know this woman Oprah Winfrey, she’s black I think. I think she’s got a very strong mind of her own. It came out of the Chicago Tribune, didn’t it? That’s where it appeared, and she got hold of it. Well, for reasons best known to the Chicago Tribune editor, this appeared.

AB: I can tell you here and now that these stories are fantasies. They’re not anti-Semitic fantasies, but there are a lot of people out there who imagine that there are Satanists running around, snatching people off the street and sacrificing them to the Devil. This idea that Jews or Satanists or other groups abduct and murder people is pure fantasy. There are cases here and there, of course – you mentioned the case of Jason Swift last time I was here – but there is no great Satanic conspiracy, and, I suggest, there is no great Jewish conspiracy either.

[We returned to talking about the media Jews Lady Birdwood had alluded to; they were referred to as the Famous Five.]

LB: I call them the Infamous Five.

AB: The fact is that the Jews are very well organised, I think we can agree on that.

LB: Yes, they’re not very clever, that’s what I feel.

AB: They must be clever if they control the media and the money.

LB: I don’t think so, I don’t think it’s clever; we never worried about money in this country as you know. Only about five per cent of our people, (the last figure I saw was 1985) want to be millionaires or to be very wealthy, and the rest of us...the rest are quite content with just enough to be comfortable and to enjoy life.

AB: So if the Jews go after the money, don’t they deserve it?

LB: You see, they spend it so unwisely.

AB: Let me come back to this ... they’re very well organised, and basically whenever people attack them, they scream anti-Semite. You can see this not just with Jews but with other pressure groups. They get organised. It’s happening now with homosexuals, it’s been happening with them for a long time. You can’t use the word queer now, you have to say gay, although what’s gay about it I can’t possibly imagine.

LB: The whole thing [homosexuality] is very sick.

AB: What I’m saying is that once these pressure groups get organised, they scream for more and more rights and to suppress other people’s rights, and this is what the Jews have been doing [for a long time] so I don’t think it’s an overt conspiracy in that sense.

LB: I think it was a conspiracy, I walked into the communist bookshop in Charing Cross Road [Collett’s] in the days when they didn’t recognise me and shut me out of the shop. And I was fishing around in the back of the shop for interesting books, and I came across 64 pages of typed stuff, and it was all about the Gay Movement starting up in a place called Hemel Hempstead in Hertfordshire, it was the beginning of it. And Mao Tse Tung and Stalin and all these people came into it.

AB: It actually started in America, the so-called Gay Rights thing.

LB: Yes, it probably did, but in this country...and I realised from the beginning it was political. And of course these people are going to be persecuted now because they keep coming out with this.

AB: This is what I was trying to say about the Jewish Question. They [the Jews] haven’t got so much power, they don’t control everything. The Protocols is still in print. They’ve been trying to suppress that ridiculous document for years – I know you believe it. They haven’t been able to stop the outpouring of Revisionist material; in fact, it’s reached the stage now where they have to produce quote scholarly unquote, works to refute it rather than simply denounce all Holocaust Revisionists as Nazis?

LB: Yes, but as far as The Protocols is concerned, the whole thing’s grown and grown [to such an extent] that it looks like The Protocols.

AB: It certainly does. [Laughing.]

LB: You see what I mean?

AB: Perhaps the person who wrote The Protocols thought that?

LB: If he did, I don’t know, it was in 1897, wasn’t it?

AB: I think The Protocols first appeared in 1903 in a Russian newspaper; I’ll check that out in due course. (144)

LB: They had a meeting, didn’t they, at Basle?

AB: The [minutes of the] World Zionist Congress, that’s what it’s meant to be.

LB: I think it was 1894.

AB: 1897.

LB: Was it?

AB: The Protocols is generally accepted to be a plagiarism on a satire against Napoleon III by Maurice Joly, Dialogue aux enfers... something. (145)

LB: I’ve never heard this one; [I thought] it came directly out of that conference.

AB: No. (146)

LB: I’ve read about it in other books.

AB: The point is this, when we’re talking about multi-racialism, your arguments are clear, coherent, forceful and irrefutable, because you are in the right and because multi-racialism is based on compulsion. It’s not racism that’s undemocratic, it’s multi-racialism. If you’re going to force people to integrate, force immigration...I would suggest to you though that when we talk about the Jewish Question – and I want to be diplomatic about this – but on [certain] aspects of the Jewish Question you are as gullible as you are sincere, and that certain people have been feeding you a lot of rubbish about it, and a lot of half truths, and you don’t seem to be able to sort the wheat from the chaff. I’ll give you a couple of examples.

LB: Before you go any further just let me say that I did not study the quote, Jewish Question, unquote, I stumbled on it gradually and built up my own view such as it was, but other people appeared to know a great deal more about it, and if you’re going to do something like that, you’ve got to rely on others, you can’t help it.

AB: Right. But The Longest Hatred and the other stuff is material that was fed to you by anti-Semites, people who don’t share your idealism, but who simply hate Jews.

LB: Yes, because the other people don’t hate them, or if they do, they don’t mention it, they have some axe to grind or they feel they have. It’s to do with money.

AB: Let’s take one example, this quote here made by one Israel Cohen in A Racial Program for the Twentieth Century. This was made, ostensibly, in 1912.

[I did not read out this quote, but this is it in full: “We must realise that our Party’s most powerful weapon is racial tension. By pounding it into the consciousness of the dark races that for centuries they have been oppressed by the Whites, we can mould them to our program. The terms ‘colonialism’ and ‘imperialism’ must be featured in our propaganda. In America we will aim for subtle victory. While inflaming the Negro minority against the Whites, we will endeavour to instil in the Whites a guilt complex for exploiting the Negroes. We will aid the Negroes to rise to prominence in every walk of life, in the professions and in the world of sport and entertainment. With this prestige, the Negroes will be able to intermarry with the Whites and begin a process which will deliver America to our cause.”]

AB: This Israel Cohen did not exist, he did not make any such statement in 1912, there is no such book as A Racial Program for the Twentieth Century. (147)

LB: Where did you get that from?

AB: This is the product of an American anti-Semite named Eustace Mullins who also writes on financial matters. That does make me angry.

LB: Eustace Mullins is still alive, I think.

AB: Yes. [He may be.] (148) This quote first appeared around 1957, and it was actually read into the Congressional Record.

LB: Yes.

AB: It’s a fake. It was invented by Mullins, who passed it on to a Swedish anti-Semite who sent this and other stuff all over the world, including the other quotes by Rabbi Reichorn and Rabbi Rabinovich, who never existed either. (149)

LB: Why should I believe you any more than I believe my other informants? This is where we have difficulty.

AB: He was meant to be a communist, wasn’t he, Israel Cohen?

LB: Yes, an English communist.

AB: Right, writing in 1912. There was no communist party in England until 1917.

LB: Yes, but the Israelis, not Israelis [then] but Jews would know all about it because they were the founders of communism.

AB: Don’t you think the name Israel Cohen is a little bit obvious?

LB: No, there are a lot of Jews with the name Israel, and Cohen in its many forms is a very common name.

AB: What I mean is that it is so obviously a Jewish name, and this association with communism and race-mixing...

LB: Yes, but in that booklet, Why Do You Not Listen To Us?

AB: Which is produced by anti-Semites.

LB: They put it together, but the original quotes stood. They’re all given a date.

AB: Are they all genuine?

LB: As genuine as anything the Jews say about us. We may all be talking in double speak or triple speak or something.

AB: This quote here is taken from Choice, Edition 20, 1990. Rabbi Rabinovich speaking to an assembly in Budapest Hungary.

“I can state with assurance that the last generation of white children is now being born.”

If he said that, he was wrong, because they’re [white children] still being born.

LB: Yes.

AB: Just, just! But this again is nonsense, this was produced by Mullins; there was no Rabbi Rabinovich. I’ll tell you why...

LB: That’s entered into the Congressional Record. (150)

AB: Then that’s wrong too! If you look at this idea that communism is Jewish, it’s also anti-Jewish. Have a look at the communists; you won’t find any black capes there and black hats.

LB: Black?

AB: Orthodox Jews.

LB: Oh.

AB: Orthodox Jews are anathema to communism, yet what’s this Rabbi Rabinovich? The implication is that he’s an Orthodox Jew.

LB: That’s right, but I don’t think somehow or other they’re Orthodox. There are a lot of odd comments coming from rabbis. There’s a lot more of it, isn’t there?

AB: Yes, but it’s all rubbish, all lies, anti-Semitic fabrications. What I’m saying is that you reproduced this in good faith.

LB: Yes.

AB: But now I’ve pointed out to you that it’s not true...You say you want to start a dialogue with the Jews?

LB: Yes, that was my original intention, but it’s hopeless.

AB: Maybe not.

LB: You can’t do a thing.

AB: You’re judging all Jews like the Gables of this world.

LB: Because one bangs into them.

AB: Yes, they’re the ones you meet, but they’re not all like that. Are they?

LB: I happen to know a Jew who’s quite different, but he happens to be a Christian.

AB: Right. What I would suggest to you is that...how can I put it? A lot of Jews hate you, despise you because they’ve been fed a lot of garbage about Lady Birdwood – they’re told she’s a Nazi, she’s a fascist, she’s a mad old woman, she’s a raving anti-Semite – and why? Because people see things in print and they believe what they read.

LB: That’s how the Jews [work]. Gable is a Jew.

AB: And you had that Polly Toynbee creature who interviewed you and lied about you through her teeth. I don’t think she’s a Jew[ess].

LB: She is.

AB: She is?

LB: Oh yes, her uncle, her great-uncle or whoever he was, Arnold Toynbee.

AB: Arnold Toynbee was a Jew?

LB: Yes.

AB: I didn’t know that. They’re everywhere, aren’t they? (151)

LB: They are, they stick their necks out all the time and draw fire.

AB: She libelled you, right, so that’s two Jews who libelled you. (152)

LB: That article of hers in the Guardian you mean?

AB: Yes. It was nonsense.

LB: Yes.

AB: But people read the Guardian and they say “Oh, it’s in the Guardian, it’s written by Polly Toynbee, it must be true.” And Jews are just the same as us in that respect, they’re just as stupid. They read things in the press...[maybe] it’s not that people are stupid, you can’t check everything because there’s so much information coming at us from all sides.

LB: They get in such a state that it’s ridiculous.

AB: What I would suggest is that if you are sincere about starting a dialogue with the Jews – and I don’t doubt you are – is that you write to the Jewish Chronicle, Jewish Telegraph, the Board of Deputies, all these prominent Jews – mention these quotes, saying you reproduced them in good faith but that you no longer believe them, or can they be authenticated or proven as forgeries. If they can satisfy you that they are forgeries, then in the next issue of Choice you should print an apology. And maybe...

LB: How about them printing an apology to us?

AB: Maybe if you do that – somebody’s got to make the first move – they won’t because they’re paranoid. Every time they see you their eyes light up with swastikas.

LB: It’s so silly.

AB: On the other hand, if you were to make the first move, I’ve no doubt that some of them would say, “Oh that crazy Lady Birdwood...” but some of them might say, “Hang on a minute, this woman has been writing all this stuff about us, now she’s admitted she was wrong about something, maybe people have been leading us up the garden path about her too, maybe we can sit down and talk.”

LB: They’re far more likely to say she’s wrong about that, she’s wrong about everything she’s said, and everything in The Longest Hatred. You know why I wrote The Longest Hatred?

AB: You didn’t write it, you published it. (153)

LB: Yes, I published it.

AB: This [The Longest Hatred] is a mish mash of half truths and outright lies. Basically it says that all evil is Jewish.

LB: Well, I think quite a lot of people feel it is.

AB: But that’s nonsense, isn’t it?

LB: Anybody who’s got the power they have, and got their hands on all the newspapers ...

AB: They don’t control all the newspapers.

LB: Not all, I do happen to know one that’s not (154) because they (155) said they [wouldn’t] and they never would.

AB: Which one is that?

LB: Never mind! [Laughing.]

AB: Let’s try this wonderful anti-Semite’s fantasy. Imagine all the Jews in the world disappeared off the face of the Earth tomorrow.

LB: Hmm. [Nodding.]

AB: Watch Richard Edmonds’ face light up with glee. Would all the evil disappear with them?

LB: No, all the evil wouldn’t, but what can I say? It wouldn’t have horns. It would be a gentler evil.

AB: A gentler evil?

LB: Yes, it’s a very cruel evil we’ve got, and you see, the bringing of all these coloured people...this is the tool by which they destroy Christianity, it all goes back to Christianity, and in a way, as you’re an atheist you can’t argue with this. My trial proved this.

AB: Will you write to these Jewish organisations and admit you have been misled?

LB: No, I would doubt it.

AB: Are you prepared to try?

LB: Well, no, I think I am doing battle with them, a verbal battle ...

AB: No, no! Don’t do battle, you’ll get more by co-operating than by battling them.

LB: Well, I don’t know, perhaps they could apologise for some things.

AB: Why not the Christian way first, why not stick your neck out?

LB: I’ve stuck it out a hell of a lot, they haven’t.

AB: If you were to admit you were wrong...

LB: I know what you’re saying, but let me just say to you that that trial of mine was about the Talmud. Christianity and Judaism.

AB: It wasn’t the three hundred thousand Jews in this country who brought that about, it was a noisy pressure group: the Jewish Chronicle and the Board of Deputies, wasn’t it?

LB: My trial? It may have been.

AB: You can’t blame all Jews for it.

LB: No, you can’t, but I think that Jews should look after Jews, just as I try to look after my fellows.

AB: That’s what they were trying to do. The Jews who prosecuted you were, in their own minds, trying to protect the rest of the Jews from this mad old woman – that’s the way they see it.

LB: Yes, but I didn’t write the leaflets, if you remember. They came anonymously through my door. I was incensed, particularly about dredging up this business of the massacre by the English of the Jews.

AB: I agree, that’s hypocrisy.

LB: It’s shocking. Eight hundred years previously, and the Guardian said it was the worst piece of anti-Semitism ever in British history. Why rake up the worst piece of Christian/Jewish...it started like that, as far as I’m concerned. The rest of it, about ritual murder and that sort of thing was what caught the eye of the police and the CPS. Then, the second one came, the Talmud quotes, and I was shocked, I’d never heard such...

AB: Maybe they’re fake as well? Let’s come back to all this stuff: [the Israel Cohen and Rabbi Rabinovich quotes] do you still believe all this rubbish here is genuine?

LB: I do in view of what is happening you see, it’s an on-running thing. I was going to say to you [that] the bringing of all these coloureds here is the tool with which they going to work. Rabinovich could do this knowing it was going to happen.

AB: There was no Rabbi Rabinovich; he didn’t exist.

LB: There are three at least around now.

AB: Not this one.

LB: There are three at least, I keep tripping over them.

AB: This was something which appeared in [the American publication] Common Sense and was republished in the Canadian Intelligence Service. This is the product of anti-Semitic fantasy.

LB: You see this is like The Protocols Of Zion.

AB: It’s still nonsense.

LB: Funnily enough it didn’t appear in The Protocols, this business about ruining countries by other nations. To turn all the nations onto Britain like this, and bring in this multi-faith and multi-culture, it’s ruining this country.

AB: I’ll tell you why it didn’t appear in The Protocols, because the nature of communism has changed since they were written. Do you know what was the slogan of the South African Communist Party in 1925?

LB: No.

AB: It was “Workers of the World Unite and Fight for a White South Africa!” All these early communists were racists. Karl Marx himself was not only a raving anti-Semite – in spite of his Jewish origins – he advocated slavery, he regarded blacks as inferior...All these early communists did, including probably the Jewish communists.

[My colleague Mark Taha pointed out later that the Rand Revolt was actually in 1922; the slogan as given in Norman Herd’s book 1922: The Revolt on the Rand, is “Workers of the World Unite, and Fight for a White South Africa.”]

LB: Even a Jew can change his tune if he wants to.

AB: So what happened was that the communist movement became obsessed with this fight racism nonsense. Then came the Nazi’s war on race if you like, and they did persecute the Jews, there’s no getting away from that.

LB: Yes, because the Jews did to them what they are doing or are trying to do to us. They turn these coloured races onto this country; there are now nearly seventy million people in this country...(156)

AB: We’re being phased out, there’s no getting away from that, the white race is being phased out.

LB: Yes.

AB: But it’s not the Jews, it’s a madness, it’s a collective madness.

LB: I think it was the Jews.

AB: Were the Jews doing this in Weimar Germany?

LB: They tried to destroy Germany as an Aryan race or as a nation of people.

AB: You mean they tried to assimilate?

LB: They tried to get people of different races into Germany just as they tried it on us, and are trying. They’re making for another Holocaust. The view is among people who discuss them is that every fifty years they require a Holocaust in order to cover up and to get the reparations. Look what they’ve got from Germany.

AB: Yes, that’s disgraceful.

LB: Shocking. So why shouldn’t they try here?

AB: What I’m saying is that with the Nazis’ war on the Jews, this thing about race, the idea that the concept of race has been discredited and it has been used by egalitarians, by socialists and fellow travellers ever since. It has been used consciously and quite shamelessly. If you want racial separation, if you advocate voluntary apartheid or if you believe that one race is superior to another, then you will be branded a fascist or a Nazi – you will gas the blacks the same way the Nazis gassed the Jews. This is blatant political gerrymandering, (157) but it’s not the Jews per se who are behind it, it’s a collective madness, this so-called movement against so-called racism or whatever it is.

LB: Yes, but you see it’s against the rejection of multi-racialism. It’s outrageous because, you see, no black can be a racist, only a white, so therefore you see it’s against white people, and blacks are to be allowed to breed like flies and simply push us out of our beds, our jobs, our cities...

AB: Yes, but it’s not a Jewish poison, it’s happening to the Jews as well. A while ago I was listening to a Jewish programme on LBC Radio and there was a spokesman on there who said [words to the effect that] one in three of our people is marrying out now. There aren’t going to be any of us left.

LB: They say this.

AB: It’s true.

LB: Yes, it may well be because the people hear the clamour against the Jews and Jews who’ve lived here quietly and peacefully and [have] made no difficulty for us ...

AB: There are quite a lot then?

LB: There are some, there’s no question. I would think that they marry out in order to protect themselves. The general thinking among people who are concerned...

AB: Why don’t you write to these Orthodox groups and say, “Can’t we get together and talk, can’t we do something for the benefit of both our races? We have to stop this race-mixing madness.”

LB: Well, it would be better really if...

AB: They’re not going to do it, they’re not going to write to you.

LB: They not going to write to me, but they could say there never was a Rabinovich, but we’re going to laugh because there are about three of them. And it’s happening: it’s The Protocols all over again. And the thing that’s interesting is that [though] they never in The Protocols mention colour and multi-colour, [sic] they certainly had this wonderful idea of destroying Christianity by multi-faith, [sic] chipping off bits of everybody’s faith and building a multi-faith cathedral in Milton Keynes. Did you know this?

AB: This is all this one-world nonsense.

LB: It’s no longer one world, the government, it’s the...

AB: New World Order?

LB: Yes.

AB: But this is money talking, not just Jewish money.

LB: Well, it’s going to be, you know, we all know who’s going to be running the central bank in Europe. And when the snake of the serpent surrounds Europe, it’s finished. I flew at the Metropolitan Police Commissioner because he wound the serpent around the Metropolitan Police badge. I wrote to him and asked him what the hell he was doing.

[This is stuff right out of the dark blue yonder, the far reaches of the craziest of conspiracy theories: when the symbolic snake of Judaism encircles the world, we’ve all had our chips!]

AB: While we’re on the subject of conspiracy, how much of the sensible conspiracy theory have you read...the Bilderbergers et al?

LB: I’ve known about them for twenty, thirty years...

AB: They’re not Jewish groups though, are they?

LB: Yes, I think they are on the whole. Henry Kissinger and people like that are all Jews. There are a number of others.

AB: Rothschild?

LB: Rothschild, but the other people...they begin with ‘R’ as well.

AB: The Rockefellers.

LB: Yes.

AB: They’re not Jews.

LB: Well...

AB: As I’ve pointed out before...I believe there is a conspiracy, but let’s not call it a conspiracy, let’s call it manipulation of finance from behind the scenes. This self-perpetuating elite wants a total monopoly of finance and resources, globally.

LB: And media.

AB: And media.

LB: That’s why I stand up and fight.

AB: This is not fantasy, this is fact. But just because there are a lot of Jews involved in it doesn’t mean that it’s a Jewish conspiracy anymore than the Mafia is a Sicilian conspiracy. If Sicilians were running it you wouldn’t say it was a Sicilian conspiracy. Would you?

LB: Yes, but they’re Sicilian Jews.

AB: Sicilian Jews?

LB: Yes. American Jews. Are you aware that there’s a Mafia? They had some over here.

AB: Don’t you think that this is just the tendency of Jews to monopolise everything they do?

LB: Yes.

AB: You do?

LB: I think so, yes.

AB: So it doesn’t have to have a sinister or conspiratorial explanation?

LB: It’s very sinister because if you get one group of people in the world making a grab for the world...I think they are behind the Christadelphinians. I read something that was sent to me from Bristol, and in it they said that they were putting a new Messiah on the throne in Jerusalem and all the world would be at peace and there would be no more political in-fighting, and everybody would come to Jerusalem and bow down to the new Messiah. And I laughed myself silly.

AB: They haven’t done that.

LB: It’s the biggest advert for Jerusalem and for tourism that I’ve ever seen in my life. All these people paying to go to Jerusalem to a phony Messiah.

AB: It’s not turning out like that though. I have here The Truth At Last formerly the Thunderbolt.

LB: Yes.

AB: Jewish Lobby Records Show Millions Paid Congress Aid To Israel all these Congressmen who’ve taken backhanders from the Jewish Lobby. It does show that they’re not quite as innocent as they make out.

LB: Yes, they’re called...you know...survivors.

AB: But they’re getting a bit panicky because Israel is a pariah, a bit like South Africa. Isn’t it?

LB: Yes, and it’s very difficult to do anything about it because of the money question and the media question.

AB: But the Americans are selling out now, aren’t they? They’re talking about a dual state with the Palestinians.

LB: Yes, but that might be as bad an error to make as allowing Palestinians in to take that part of the world.

AB: My view is that America will eventually throw off the Jewish yoke, as it were.

LB: That might happen. It’s very difficult to say.

AB: There’s going to be no world government in Jerusalem with the symbolic snake around the world.

LB: No. They wouldn’t need it by then, would they? If they’ve got control and the serpent’s done its work, it can come home to rest in Tel Aviv or something.

AB: As I said, Americans are waking up, so are Jews waking up – they’re not all in it.

LB: It’s nice to know if they could get themselves together and undo some of the damage the others have done, it would be a great idea.

AB: But they won’t do that while people keep distributing The Protocols and The Longest Hatred. There’s got to be some good will on your side.

LB: But they started the longest hatred, didn’t they?

AB: Yes, but there’s got to be some conciliation, hasn’t there?

LB: I would have thought there must be some, but...

AB: Why don’t you make the first move?

LB: Well, I’m not anybody, you see. I put that booklet out...you know the reason why I put it out. They have the monopoly of the media, and as soon as I was charged they started pouring out pro-anti-Semitic stuff. (158) I’ve got tapes of the three part programme on the subject...I thought I’ve got to retaliate in some way...they should apologise to me if they want to start talking peace because they pre-empted my trial. That’s why I put it out, and people wrote to me about it, they said, they pre-empted my trial.

AB: They demanded your prosecution for The Longest Hatred?

LB: They still might...they never leave me alone, it’s terrible the way a person like myself is harassed.

AB: They haven’t got it though, have they? It’s not a case of the Jews snap their fingers and everybody jumps.

[Not quite, but unfortunately, my experiences with the Metropolitan Police since recording these interviews tends to indicate otherwise.]

LB: No, it isn’t quite, but it’s very nearly I think. And when I put out that book, the JC rang me up and said why the hell did you put this out while you’re still on bail? They said it’s very provocative. I said I’ll tell you why, as soon as I was charged, you people started up, you made hundreds of programmes and they spouted out like a torrent, and in the middle of it all came The Longest Hatred, so I put the booklet out to stop you pre-empting my trial. I think that’s fair enough.

AB: Can we talk a little bit about religious anti-Semitism. We have here The Talmud Unmasked. I must admit I haven’t read this, but...

LB: There are some fearful bits in it, hair raising.

AB: Okay, let’s assume there is pornography in the Talmud.

LB: Have you read the Talmud?

AB: Contrary to what a lot of people think, I do not speak or read either Hebrew or Yiddish. (159)

LB: You don’t have to, you go to any English library and you can get a copy, all thirty volumes if you want. It’s terrible.

AB: The Talmud was written four, five thousand years ago? (160)

LB: Yes, about.

AB: By a primitive tribe?

LB: By all sorts of different people.

AB: Primitive by our standards; they didn’t have electric lights, for example.

LB: No, but I don’t regard that as primitive in th[at] way.

AB: A lot of these people on the borders of pre-history were obsessed with sex, weren’t they?

LB: That I wouldn’t know, I wasn’t around then.

AB: There were phallic symbols, and people worshipped nature. Sex was very basic.

LB: This is something quite different; you really should take a look.

AB: Can you show me something [from the Talmud?]

[We retired to Lady Birdwood’s kitchen where she kept a thirty volume Hebrew/English edition of the Talmud. (161) We spent some time pouring over two or three of the volumes looking for specific references to sexual depravity. I’m afraid I wasn’t able to garner much enthusiasm for this foray. As a lifelong atheist I have never had any time for religion. So, the ancient Jews filled volumes with pornographic writings and deprecatory comments about Gentiles. So what?

We did find a few anti-Christian and similar references, including a reference to Jesus being boiled in hot semen. Exactly what this is meant to prove I’m not sure].

LB: It’s absolutely obsessed with sex.

AB: Out of thirty volumes, how many are devoted to sex?

LB: You get it all over the place, you see...You really can make no sense of this, but it’s obsessed with the same subject, it goes on and on and on.

[Later, we returned to the living room and the conversation continued.]

AB: On the other hand, the Jews claim they are angry at some of the things the Bible says about them.

LB: They get their own back, don’t they?

AB: Wasn’t Christ himself a Jew?

LB: I don’t think so.

AB: He might have been.

LB: I suppose it’s possible. (162)

AB: How many Jews are actually aware of this?

LB: Of this book? I don’t know.

AB: How many Christians are aware of the Bible? Are you sure you couldn’t find similar [passages] in the Bible?

LB: At least it wouldn’t be so difficult to read, but I’ve never thought of looking, to be perfectly honest.

AB: There is a fair amount of pornography in the Bible, isn’t there?

LB: Yes, there are some things that aren’t...

AB: There is one case of a man who was seduced by his two daughters; this isn’t very Christian, is it? (163)

LB: No, it isn’t, and I’m certain that Christ had plenty to say against it. But I can’t find anything [comparable in the Bible.]

AB: Returning to the subject of anti-Semitism proper, there is an enormous amount of anti-Jewish material churned out...like this...Perish Judah. (164)

[Lady Birdwood made a few comments about this leaflet including “...very naughty.”]

AB: It’s not satire, it’s written with bad intent. Have you seen this thing: Racial Loyalty? (165)

LB: Yes, Ben Klassen. (166) I don’t like it. I won’t have anything to do with that stuff.

AB: I’m very pleased to hear it. I’ve actually seen this advertised in Spearhead. (167) You will agree that this is pure hate?

LB: I don’t think that Tyndall is a Christian, is he?

AB: I think Tyndall is an authoritarian. But you totally disassociate yourself from this nonsense here?

LB: I don’t look at it; somebody’s been sending it to me from the West Midlands or somewhere, and I asked him to drop it.

AB: You don’t agree with this RAHOWA, Racial Holy War stuff?

Lady Birdwood: I don’t agree with it.

AB: You don’t agree with this rubbish here, there’s a quote here: the above ugly mulatto nigger monkey...(168) you don’t agree with this sort of rubbish?

Lady Birdwood: No, I think it’s unnecessary entirely, I don’t like offending anybody on Earth, and certainly if I saw a black being belaboured by a white I would go quickly to his assistance.

AB: Right, you say you don’t believe in offending anybody, and I take you at your word, but you don’t seem to realise how offensive some of this [anti-Jewish] garbage is. I mean, The Protocols, okay, you believe in The Protocols but...

Lady Birdwood: Yes, I think they did, they came out of that conference. I do think it did. There’s a book I’ve read by a chap written in 1945 by a chap, [sic?] he was a major in the army, and when he retired, he wrote a book, I think it was his book, I’ve read about this conference. It’s all about what’s known as The Plan. And The Plan is The Protocols.

AB: I would seriously suggest that you read some of the more financial side of the conspiracy. You’ve read Gary Allen? (169)

Lady Birdwood: Yes, I’ve got his book or books, but I think we want to stop this you see, if we can.

AB: What percentage of Jews would you say are involved in this conspiracy as you call it?

Lady Birdwood: Of world Jewry?

AB: Yes.

Lady Birdwood: Well, when you say that, if the rank and file Jewry in this country, in America and everywhere do not perhaps agree with their leaders, if they could combat it, so that it doesn’t go from bad to worse...

AB: What percentage would you say are actively involved in the world government movement?

Lady Birdwood: It’s difficult to say.

AB: It’s not just Jews though, is it?

Lady Birdwood: No, we call them stooges or also-rans. There are people who work for them, there’s no question.

AB: Are they working for them or are one-worlders, Jews and Gentiles working together?

Lady Birdwood: All right, working together.

AB: Let me come back to the IRA again; that is an Irish conspiracy, isn’t it?

Lady Birdwood: Yes.

AB: People don’t hate the IRA anything like as much as they hate the Jews, (170) yet we can see the results of the IRA’s handiwork.

Lady Birdwood: Yes but the IRA turns up here say once a month, in the last few days there have been several, but before that they turned up once a month and dropped a small bomb.

AB: There were nearly a hundred Sectarian murders in Northern Ulster last year.

Lady Birdwood: Yes, in Ulster.

**********

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